Episode 10

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Published on:

27th May 2024

Why Is It So Hard To Stop Buying Fast Fashion?

Women, Fashion, and Consumerism: Part 1

In the first episode of this three-part series, I’m joined by a panel of experts for an in-depth discussion on the intersection of women, fashion, and consumerism. We explore WHY it's so challenging to change your buying habits, and discuss some compelling stats about fast fashion’s environmental impact.

As well as sharing personal anecdotes (and some hilarious sidetracks), we also provide practical advice to foster more mindful and sustainable fashion choices, emphasising the importance of self-expression, creativity, and ultimately, a deeper connection with your wardrobe.

Guests:

Mentioned in this episode:

About the show:

This is Reloved Radio: Sustainable Fashion Stories, the fortnightly show that brings you inspiring stories from guests who are making a positive impact in the sustainable fashion space.

Want to know the BEST places to shop secondhand online in Australia? Download this EPIC list for free!

Join the Reloved conversation on Instagram.

Credits:

Music: 'Old Leather Sneakers' by PineAppleMusic

Transcript
Chryssius:

Welcome to the first episode of our three part series,

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exploring the dynamic intersection

of women, fashion, and consumerism.

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I'm your host, Chryssius Dunn, and

I'm joined by a panel of experts who

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bring a wealth of knowledge and insight

to the table around these topics.

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We have a gentle coach, Vive Oldham,

who has a compassionate approach to

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mindful living and has inspired countless

individuals to break free from the

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constraints of societal expectations.

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Next, we welcome money coach Jacinta

Ebsworth, who specialises in encouraging

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women to cultivate a healthy relationship

with money and align their spending

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habits with their values and aspirations.

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Joining us as well is sustainable fashion

expert and personal stylist Hazel Law,

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who has a deep understanding of ethical

fashion practices and specialises

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in curating "wearable wardrobes".

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And last, but certainly not least, we

have someone who, in her own words, is op

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shop obsessed and a vintage loving girly.

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You probably know her as

"Routinely A Mess" on Insta,

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but we know her as Charlie.

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And in fact, it absolutely would

not surprise any of us if she was

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recording this from an op shop.

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The topic of today's episode is

"Consumption and Habit Change".

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Why is it so hard to stop buying?

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And we're going to be talking

about the complexities of fast

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fashion consumption, the societal

pressures faced by women and the

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life-changing power of mindful shopping.

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I want to start with a couple of stats,

which I personally find horrifying.

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Firstly, a recent study conducted by the

Australian Fashion Council and Central

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Queensland University reports that

Australians send 200, 000 tons of clothing

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and textiles to landfill every year.

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And secondly, on average, every

Australian buys 56 items of clothing

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yearly, most of which are made from

non-sustainable, non-durable materials.

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Hazel, I want to start with you

because I know in your role as

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a sustainable stylist, you're

very familiar with these stats.

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How do they reflect broader

global trends in fast fashion and

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its impact on the environment?

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Hazel: I'd like to start

with the environmental piece.

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And I think that, you know, it's easy

for us to, as one person, think, Oh,

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I'm just going to buy one cheap t shirt.

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I'm just going to buy one cheap dress.

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And that's that.

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It's not really going to have an

impact on the rest of the world.

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But, you know, if each person in the

world, 8 billion of us, or however many it

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is now are thinking that, you can see how

that can really easily start to add up.

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And I think that what we actually

need to realise is that fashion is the

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second biggest polluter in the universe.

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I'm not sure about the universe,

guys in the world, though in

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the planet that we live on.

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And in order to really start to change

the trajectory of the climate crisis,

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we have to get a handle on what we're

doing, when it comes to fast fashion and

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when it comes to our wardrobes and when

it comes to our approach to consumption

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and without starting to uncouple

our personal style with consumption,

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I'm not sure how else to do that.

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That's the number one thing.

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I've been reading a book recently, it's

"The Anti Capitalist Book of Fashion"

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and it says, it's a sad day for the world

when the word fashion came into place

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because it basically started the the idea

of trends and before it was just style,

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it was personal style, it was dressing

for ceremony, you know, it was all of

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those things and now we're on a trend

treadmill and we can't seem to get off.

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Chryssius: And the fallout from the fast

fashion industry, it disproportionately

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impacts women, both as consumers and also

as workers in the garment supply chain,

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Hazel: Absolutely.

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So, you know, it's the women who are also

the most affected by climate change and by

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the impact that the fast fashion industry

is currently having on our planet.

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Women are the most likely to actually

be negatively impacted by that.

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You know, let alone all of the

women workers who have to leave

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their families to make a living.

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And even women in the global North,

we're targeted by fast fashion.

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We are the people who spend our

hard-earned money and spend our

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hard-earned time and energy collecting

these fast fashion pieces because we're

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basically being trolled by the fashion

industry and primed to constantly buy.

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Chryssius: Charlie, as someone who's,

who I know has recently made a conscious

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effort to shop slower, why do you think

it's so hard for us and when I say us, I

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mean specifically women, to stop buying?

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Charlie: I really believe that

there's a level of pre-programming

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already within us from what

we've absorbed from social media.

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Even back, like when I was in high school,

I remember when it would come to the

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weekend and we'd have parties and things

and me and my friends, we would talk about

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what we were going to wear and even at the

age of 14, there was that pre-programming

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that we had to go and get a new top.

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And we used to always go to KOOKAÏ and

pick out like the new top of the week.

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And most of the time what was happening

was we were seeing the ones that the

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girls that were a bit older than us

were-wearing and we would just, buy

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that because what we were seeing them

do, we didn't see people ahead of

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us re-wearing and being like really

advocating for that re-wearability

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and that slow consumption mindset.

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And one thing that was different for

me, and I like kind of began that

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UN pre-programming with myself, was

I couldn't afford to do that and

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go to KOOKAÏ and buy that $60 top.

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And I used to go to the op shop and

see if I could find something similar.

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And eventually like I had this little

kind of capsule wardrobe within my

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wardrobe as a teenager, but I still

remember my friends and I like feeling

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as though we had to keep consuming

and we had to keep changing things.

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We couldn't wear the same thing twice,

although we were just going to a friend's

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house, like there wasn't, we weren't going

to any sort of grand event or anything.

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Right.

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But one thing that has really

shifted that I think is when people

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have hiring businesses and that's

clothes swapping ethics and seeing

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how people share their wardrobes

and look and go deeper into that.

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And I think it all comes back to that

pre-programming from social media and

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those external influences that have

made us believe that new is better.

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And that we need to constantly be

changing and be doing something

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different, even if we wore something once.

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Chryssius: I agree it is so ingrained

from such a young age, whether

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it's magazines or whether it is the

slightly older generation that we're

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looking up to, whether that be in high

school or whatever, it's everywhere.

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Charlie: Absolutely, and as someone

who's been at a high school for a

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little while, but it's so interesting

that was happening when I was in high

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school and I still even notice it now.

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And I always refer to myself as a "retired

influencer" because I was in that scene

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a couple years ago, and even then there

were certain parts that were in that

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where we all wore something different

to every single event and you didn't

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want to be photographed or create a

reel or anything in the same outfit that

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you wore to the event the week before.

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And I feel like I'm beginning to see

a shift in that with people being

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more conscious and re-wearing and just

changing the accessories or having

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more fun with a garment or belting or

doing something with it to evolve it.

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But, that pre-programming, I think,

is still there, and that deprogramming

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has to be motivated by self, and

people have to want to do it.

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It almost needs to

become trendy, in a way.

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We need that to hit the trend treadmill.

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And we've already seen, like, such a big

part of that come through with the op

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shopping trend that's come through earlier

this year, which really has peaked, I'd

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say it was around January, February.

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We saw the big peak of that thanks to the

"mob wife" trend that came through because

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what happened was no one could find the

biggest thing from the mob wife trend, say

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that in quotation, was that furs and all

those animal prints were coming back in.

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And these fast fashion companies,

although they're very fast, they

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cannot produce a quality faux fur...

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or a fur, at the rate that

is accessible to people.

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So immediately the biggest trend that

came through was actually turning

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to vintage sellers and op shopping

in order to find these garments.

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And already like we're in May and we're

seeing people actually even consume too

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fast in an op shop, which was meant to

be one of the most sustainable options.

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So.

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That's jumped on the treadmill and

that I really believe has come from

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that mob wife aesthetic theme that

was coming through late December,

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January, February of this year.

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Chryssius: I love to see that

something positive is coming from

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a trend, a fast fashion trend.

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I have to say that.

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Charlie: I was so lucky, when that trend

spiked, I was actually in Copenhagen.

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So , I felt so lucky because I was

in this amazing fashion capital and

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I could spend all day just sitting

on the street and just watching

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these amazing people walk by and just

shamelessly dressing for themselves.

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And, yeah.

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I remember I'd actually thought to

myself, there's one piece that I

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really would like to buy and I really

wanted to find a vintage faux fur.

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If the right fur came along, maybe

I would have to think about that for

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myself, but I really wanted to find one.

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And it was funny because within a few

days of that, I thought it was just

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my FBI, AI person that had gone on my

phone and suddenly they were everywhere.

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And then this mob wife aesthetic

kind of started rolling through

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and I went, what is going on?

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And there was this woman that runs an

account on Instagram where she talks

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about all the analytics of Pinterest,

TikTok, and Instagram and everything.

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And she was saying this mob wife

aesthetic was coming in and it was

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around the 20th year of the Sopranos.

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And apparently that has influenced that,

but realistically, you can't get good

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quality faux fur and fur from these

fast fashion places in order to buy new.

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You're spending a very large amount of

money that isn't as accessible by people.

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So the masses were turning to these

resellers, which is just amazing.

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But like that was available and

people started changing their mindsets

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about shopping secondhand, which

I even saw a shift in the people I

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was friends with going, "Oh, I don't

want to go to the op shop with dirty

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clothes", to "Oh, yeah, it's vintage!"

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Vintage.

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Love the word vintage.

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It always has this different

flair to it, and my mindset is I

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always laugh and say if it was a

family heirloom, it's priceless.

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But if it's a family heirloom

that you've picked up from the op

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shop, suddenly it's a little bit

more dirty or not as valuable.

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There's been a big shift in that.

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And I definitely agree with you.

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There has been a really

positive shift from it.

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I just hope that now it doesn't keep

cycling around too fast and we end up

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with op shops, even more full of clothes

that are just fast fashion and people

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are not being mindful with what they

are even buying from the op shop or

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just thinking, "Oh I'll just donate it."

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Like there even is a thought

process that needs to go on before

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you donate and how you do that

or why you're donating so much.

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Vive: I think it's really fascinating

because what you're describing,

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Charlie, is like the trends, but

the trends being to buy preloved.

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So it's not actually getting beneath

the surface of the behaviour.

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It's like the trends are still happening.

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It's just a trend of a different nature.

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And the trend is buying

preloved, which is, great.

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But still, what is it in getting a

vintage piece that they're longing?

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Like, what are they longing to have?

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And that's I think, at the basis

of the behaviour change question is

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like, what are they really needing?

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What is it that's driving that

urge to have that particular piece?

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And I'm curious for you, Charlie, like,

what is it about the fur that you were

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thinking about wanting in Copenhagen

that really drives like, what was

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it about the fur that you, for why

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Charlie: So my little, I

love what you're saying.

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I completely agree that now

all of a sudden going to

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the op shop is hyper trendy.

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And like, have we really

hit that sustainable mark?

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I think I even put up either a

Instagram post when it came up.

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And this is when I was starting

to get a little bit more vocal

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about how I felt about fashion and

building that confidence to be vocal.

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Cause for a long time, I wasn't very vocal

about the fact that all my clothes are

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secondhand and like being mindful of, you

know, what I'm consuming, how, and all

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that, and how much I love pop culture and.

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But what, what, really shifted was

like realising that, The, when I

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saw that and got more vocal, I went,

okay, I thought that when this mob

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wife aesthetic, and we all started

turning to these vintage sellers,

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that things were going to get better.

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I thought it was going to be the shift.

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I even put up a post saying, hopefully

this is the catalyst for some change.

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And I mean, yes, people are talking about

it, but I totally agree with you in that

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now people are just consuming even more

and more, but now it's from secondhand.

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So they're consuming at a cheaper rate.

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But for me personally, the fur

one, that goes back forever.

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When I was younger, I used to

go through magazines, I used to

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cut out clothes that I liked.

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And because I was always going to like

secondhand markets as a kid, going to

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op shops, most of my clothes back then

were also from op shops and secondhand.

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I used to cut out things that I wanted

and I'd put them on like a little piece

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of paper, like a little vision board.

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And we're talking from when I was

like under the age of 10 doing this.

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And one thing I always

wanted, I had a few things.

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I wanted a really nice leather jacket.

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Whether it was faux or just a

really nice cool biker jacket.

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It's all I ever wanted was that

because I loved the way that it felt.

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I loved the way that a good quality

garment felt in like an emotional sense.

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With that and the fur thing was actually

what I'd wanted for a really long time

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but I had a bit of like guilt by like

dressing nice and dressing myself up

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or being ceremonial with the way that

I put outfits and clothes together and

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around last year I had a big shift in

that and I remember I had this like

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faux fur dream I'm gonna find a really

cool coat that I wear shamelessly.

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I just, I love it.

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And when I was in Copenhagen and

I witnessed these particular girls

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just dressing for themselves,

dressing for the fun of it,

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dressing for the whole energy of it.

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It was just different.

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I thought, why am I not doing this?

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Vive: I think that comes back to that

piece around and you were talking

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about this, like this conditioning to

need the new piece for the party that

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you were going to, or the new top and

this sense that which I don't know if

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everyone would agree with this, but

there's a sense that women have been

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trained by culture to be desirable rather

than to learn what it is they desire.

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And so when you see someone who

really is in touch with what they

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desire, especially a woman, and then

they're dressing to express that,

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it's so, enigmatic and captivating

and interesting because suddenly it's

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dressing for themselves rather than

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Hazel: Yes, Vive!

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Charlie: Absolutely.

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I I just wanted to scream.

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As you were saying that, like, yes.

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And gosh, I sound very stereotypical and

saying "Copenhagen changed everything for

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me", but it did because as a society in

Denmark or that the little space that I

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was in, I was seeing men, women people...

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ddressing for themselves and

like just shamelessly doing it.

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Like there was this woman, I remember I

was sitting, having a pastry and a coffee.

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It was like two degrees and I'm so cold.

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And I, all I could think about was that

I'm cold and this woman walks past me and

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she's in this coat and it was embroidered

in this like rainbow colour, but it was

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white on the base and her hair's swishing.

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And she just looked so incredible

and so comfortable and happy.

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And I went.

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Whoa, that's it.

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That's it.

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There's no, I'm not judging her.

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I am judging her.

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I'm judging her on how her, like

her whole energy just shifted.

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And it wasn't that I wanted the coat.

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I wanted her energy.

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And I wanted to have

that level of confidence.

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And at the end of the day, she

takes off the coat, but she's

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still that woman underneath.

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And when we shift that,

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when we shift that and we go what

am I without the clothes and the

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clothes just help a little bit more.

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And I fully believe that every day you get

dressed, you set the tone for yourself.

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You, if you dress in bright colours,

you wouldn't be surprised if more

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bright things come into your sphere.

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If you I'm a kindergarten teacher when

I'm not doing all of this and I wear

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rainbow skirts to work . And it's funny

that on days that I may not be feeling

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as great, if I put on a rainbow skirt,

like a glittery rainbow skirt, and I've

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got this one that shines if you, if I

stand in the light, it just, there's

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something that lifts in me that goes.

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I did this.

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I set the intention for myself just to be

a little bit more bright and a little bit

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more bold and whether that is helping me

work through what's going on underneath.

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But I remember when I took off that

skirt, I actually just felt better and

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I was ceremonial with the way that I

chose myself and I chose to show up as

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myself to the world and present myself.

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And I think that is really powerful.

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And I just hope that people start

to want to be motivated to want

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to do that for themselves too.

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Because you have to want to do that.

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Hazel: People are such a vital component

of fashion, like without people, fashion,

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style, trends, none of that matters.

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None of that actually, like, it doesn't

have an impact unless we buy into that.

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So like that whole piece that you

were just saying about really, truly

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feeling yourself really, truly feeling

your own personal style come through,

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regardless of trending, regardless of

whatever it is that we're being sold.

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Without people, fashion is nothing, and

without the symbols that the fashion

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that we buy into actually provides.

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Again, it doesn't mean anything, like,

we're searching for these symbolic

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values in the clothes that we wear, and

these symbolic I guess just like the

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way that we really portray ourselves

in the world, but it's the symbols that

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the clothes stand for as opposed to

what they actually are, which is like

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garments made from violence essentially.

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Vive: And I think.

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Like as you guys were both talking, I

was thinking about how clothes are just

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another art form and fashion isn't, you

know, and maybe perhaps not fashion.

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Maybe we don't use that word, but

clothes adorning a body is just another

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way of expressing like Charlie said,

how you're longing to feel or what

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you're longing to bring back to the

world or how you're wanting to make

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others feel with how you're dressing.

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And it's also a wonderful

experiment that people can do.

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And I think particularly of teenagers

who are going through a phase of

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really wrestling with authenticity

and belonging and trying on a

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bunch of personas like, Who am I?

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Am I this goth?

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Am I?

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I'm sorry.

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That's probably a really dated word.

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Am I?

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You know, who, who are all these

different types of characters that I

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can try on to find, you know, where I'm

fitting for this for the time being.

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And in some ways we do that

our whole lives, but perhaps

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we're not always completely

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Hazel: Yeah, definitely.

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Like, matrescent is such a

huge part of that for me.

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I was like, oh, I'm a mum now.

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I have to wear striped t shirts.

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Cue me going to the shops and buying

striped t shirts, which I obviously

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never wore because I am that goth.

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Charlie: as you're saying.

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I have to keep muting myself.

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A

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Chryssius: So basically what you're

saying is that we all need to find our

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own version of Charlie's rainbow skirt.

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Hazel: Yeah, exactly.

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But within what you've got it

in your wardrobe already, you

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don't need to go out and buy it.

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Like it's in your wardrobe curated stuff

that you spent your, you know, your

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precious time, energy and money buying.

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You have it, it just might

not have been getting worn.

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Chryssius: Such a valid point.

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Charlie: Agree with that.

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One hundred and thousand million percent.

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If I could throw a couple more on that.

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A hundred percent, there is.

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There's so much that you already

have and you don't realise it.

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There is a point that you have to not

have to, you choose to maybe step back

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and reflect on what you have and whether

that is already showing up as you,

350

:

whether you're feeling at the deepest

point, like are you feeling shame with

351

:

what you're-wearing and you enjoying it?

352

:

And then purposefully, if you are choosing

then to, to re, to reconsume or consume,

353

:

to actually then love what you get,

like to go, okay, the striped shirt.

354

:

I had to, I had to really try not

to tackle so much during that.

355

:

If you look at your wardrobe and you don't

feel a sense of belonging or a sense of

356

:

connection to that, do your best to rework

and if you do decide to begin purchasing

357

:

again and participate in that, know

what it is you're after and throw, strap

358

:

yourself to that rocket, strap yourself to

that rocket and you will be so surprised

359

:

at how you EASY it is to find that.

360

:

Vive: And Charlie, what you were

saying about those new tops, as

361

:

you were talking, I was thinking,

what were you looking for?

362

:

Were you looking for a

feeling of freshness?

363

:

And it's like when you start to kind of

think about, and I do this now before

364

:

I buy clothes, I think to myself,

what am I really actually wanting?

365

:

I want to feel like you might be

fresh or I want to feel more...

366

:

creative in how I'm looking

like and understanding what it

367

:

is that's kind of driving the

that longing for that new thing.

368

:

And could I where else could I get it?

369

:

Like thinking about those strategies,

where else, "how else could I

370

:

make myself feel like that?"

371

:

could be the transformational pivot point

for not needing to go out and buy the

372

:

Charlie: Are you inside my head?

373

:

Hazel: Are you inside me?

374

:

Is that what you just said?

375

:

Charlie: Are you inside my head, Vive?

376

:

Are you in my head?

377

:

I bet you are.

378

:

You're inside.

379

:

Hazel: And when you were talking

about that childhood thing as well,

380

:

Charlie, it was all like, I remembered

the first time I wanted to fit in was

381

:

in one of those exact scenarios, I

might have been eight or nine and I

382

:

went to Steiner School and at Steiner

School you have to say your birthday

383

:

verse on a certain day of the week.

384

:

And so if you dress the same as your

bestie on the day that you were doing

385

:

your birthday verse, which is, this

probably makes no sense to anyone

386

:

who didn't go to Steiner School,

but you've got to say your birthday

387

:

verse in front of the class together.

388

:

And so it was like this feeling of

fitting in, this feeling of if I

389

:

fit in and I am dressed the same in

like twinning clothes as my bestie,

390

:

I don't have to do this alone.

391

:

And it's like that feeling that I think

we're pushed into by the fashion industry

392

:

is like, Hey, you're not going to fit in.

393

:

Like, don't, but like the point is now

I don't want to, like, I don't care.

394

:

What I'm looking for, to go back to your

point, Vive, is not necessarily not to fit

395

:

in, but that's no longer on the checklist.

396

:

And I think for such a

long time, it really was.

397

:

Vive: But it's how you belong.

398

:

So it's different.

399

:

How you belong is different now.

400

:

Whereas we've got to remember that

the, I think Charlie was talking

401

:

about it, that kind of like, the

molding or the influence begins at

402

:

such an early age about how we belong.

403

:

And what we wear is

such a big part of that.

404

:

How do you make it safe for a kid?

405

:

When the rest of the outside world says,

for you to be safe you need to wear this.

406

:

So how do we make it safe for kids

when they're already going through

407

:

this really big kind of process

of who am I and how do I belong?

408

:

And what do I love and

what do others love?

409

:

And if I love what others love, then

that's how I'm safe and I belong.

410

:

And also being quite intuitive and having

a really strong sense of what they feel.

411

:

like and want to wear and desire

to wear, but remembering, Oh my

412

:

goodness, they're also walking the

line of wanting to be really safe

413

:

because childhood kind of scary.

414

:

Charlie: And do you want to hear the

punchline of it all about the top story?

415

:

I didn't actually like the tops.

416

:

Like I didn't even like them.

417

:

I did like, I actually didn't like them.

418

:

I don't even think I liked the fabric.

419

:

You would know what

fabric I'm talking about.

420

:

I didn't like it.

421

:

I didn't even like the colour.

422

:

I actually didn't like it at all.

423

:

What I liked is that I fit in with

my friends and I really, and gosh,

424

:

probably still do craved that

connection with other people, and

425

:

specifically women, really craved that.

426

:

And it was at the expense

of my own desires.

427

:

And this crazy big shift, not even too

big, but it happens over and over again.

428

:

And I'm in my early twenties,

coming up to mid twenties now.

429

:

And I would only say that in the last

six to twelve months, I've actually

430

:

really started dressing for me.

431

:

And dressing for what I like and

who I am and not going, Oh I don't

432

:

want to be overdressed and I don't

want to be underdressed, but, you

433

:

know, and just feeling uncomfortable.

434

:

And I don't even think I can

really pinpoint the moment was.

435

:

It definitely, I think my work assisted

with that, working with children.

436

:

And having that contact with

children changed it a bit for me,

437

:

but actually going what do I want?

438

:

Like, what do I really want?

439

:

And that shift, I think once I started,

it was like, there was no going back.

440

:

Vive: Yeah.

441

:

That's that beautiful piece about women.

442

:

You know, the big picture is in, say,

let's talk in our Western culture

443

:

and probably the cultures that we've

been raised when I can't speak for

444

:

everyone, obviously, but you know,

women's ability to ask that question,

445

:

that beautiful question that you

just said, you know, what do I want?

446

:

It is been so shut down over like

hundreds and hundreds of years,

447

:

because if you had needs as a woman

300 years ago, 200 years ago, a hundred

448

:

years ago you know, it wasn't safe.

449

:

It wasn't safe to have needs.

450

:

And so just, I mean, hooray that

you're in your mid twenties and

451

:

you're connecting to this sense

of hang on a sec, what do I want?

452

:

And you can tap into that because a

lot of people, when I speak to them,

453

:

when we're coaching and that's the

question you tend to ask is like, I

454

:

don't know, I don't know what I want.

455

:

They know what they don't want, but they

don't know what they want because it's

456

:

a really tricky thing when you haven't

grown up connected to your own needs.

457

:

Hazel: And I think that comes

back to the consumption.

458

:

It's like, Oh, if I'm not safe and I

don't know how to ask for what I want

459

:

and I, you know, I don't know how to do

this and that, what can I do instead?

460

:

I can buy shit and I can

feel good about that.

461

:

Charlie: Oh, that's a good one.

462

:

That's a good one.

463

:

I, my favourite, one of my

favourite things to say.

464

:

is when someone makes a comment

about their clothing or about

465

:

themselves or anything and

they're diminishing themselves.

466

:

I always love to say, why are you making

yourself small for the comfort of others?

467

:

Like your comfort and your

safety is so much more important.

468

:

SO much more important.

469

:

And I've got to remind myself of this

because big hypocrite and saying, no,

470

:

why you make, I still do it to this day.

471

:

Vive: As a kindy teacher, Charlie,

I've got a just out of kindy child who

472

:

likes to wear a lot of rainbow clothes,

like a lot, pretty much everything

473

:

rainbow, every drawing is rainbow.

474

:

You would have had that beautiful

experience of seeing, at that

475

:

age, you would hope at that

kind of four year old mark.

476

:

They're so, authentically self expressed

most kids, at that age, that it's hard

477

:

not to mirror that back to them, like

you said, wearing your rainbow skirt.

478

:

It's just, it's such a delight

to be around that age of a child

479

:

in how they express themselves.

480

:

Charlie: was probably the most

healing thing for me was actually

481

:

being around them and seeing that.

482

:

I mean, I've had a student wear her

rainbow wellies, a pair of rainbow

483

:

leggings, rainbow jumper, and underneath

that rainbow jumper was a rainbow t

484

:

shirt and on their head was a big bow.

485

:

Like I'm talking not normal size, extra

large bow with a big dial of Elsa on it.

486

:

And this child walked in and

came up and posed in front of

487

:

me and said, do you like this?

488

:

And I said, this is the

best thing I've ever seen.

489

:

And it wasn't about the clothes.

490

:

It was about that.

491

:

The fact that child strutted up to me

and went, here I am, see me as I am.

492

:

And I thought that is the

best thing in the world.

493

:

And , I don't know what happens because

it's obviously not my area of expertise,

494

:

the transition, you know, into adulthood.

495

:

I'm more in the younger side

of children based, but something

496

:

happens, we stop doing that.

497

:

And I even look back at pictures of

me as a child and things, and I always

498

:

get told I'm very hyper feminine.

499

:

And trust me that every photo of me

as a child, I'm in a fairy dress.

500

:

I'm in a, like a different colour.

501

:

And I didn't just have like one, I

had every colour of the rainbow and

502

:

I would match it with the same colour

pair of shoes there would probably

503

:

be a fairy wand that also matched,

big pair of wings and that was how

504

:

I wanted to present to the world.

505

:

Love it.

506

:

Absolutely love it.

507

:

I, and I don't know what shifted.

508

:

That's probably for a therapist

to to go through, but that's

509

:

not what this session is about.

510

:

You know, that's probably for a bit

more of a clinical side of something

511

:

or what am I, one of my healers that's

not for this call, but something shifts

512

:

in us from the age of four and five.

513

:

And we put down the rainbow skirt and we

put down the fairy wings and we put on

514

:

this dulled version of ourselves and it

just, we spend so much longer finding our

515

:

way back to that and my biggest hope is

that through fashion, through this change

516

:

in fashion and creative climate is that

people find their way back to themselves.

517

:

And if that way back to themselves

is a black top and a black skirt

518

:

and everything that isn't my

style, do it and do it shamelessly.

519

:

Do it with love, do it all the time.

520

:

Be happy and just do that for yourself.

521

:

Vive: You nailed it when you identified

the lack of role models for that

522

:

re-wearing or the kind of creativeness

with limitation aspects like there was

523

:

a lack of role models, but I think with

people like everyone on this call there's

524

:

obviously an urge and a sense in their

mothers and parents and you know, people

525

:

in fact, working in fashion who are saying

hey, hang on a sec, like, look what you

526

:

can do when you work with limitation and

look at the creative, the creativity that

527

:

comes when you do work within limits.

528

:

Hazel: Absolutely.

529

:

I mean, without limits,

it's very overwhelming.

530

:

And the thing that I think also keeps us

buying and keeps us, you know, looking

531

:

out for that new is the overwhelm.

532

:

It's like, it's overwhelming

to look at our own wardrobes.

533

:

It's overwhelming to look at how many

clothes and garments we actually own.

534

:

So what do I do instead?

535

:

I'll just go out and buy that

one top or that one thing.

536

:

And that's going to be the

thing I'm going to wear.

537

:

That's going to be it.

538

:

Like that's the thing, but it's

like actually, with limitations

539

:

we can breed our creativity and

we can coax it out of its hiding.

540

:

We can coax those rainbow leggings

with the rainbow dress and the

541

:

rainbow skirt and everything.

542

:

We can find what it means to dress

authentically for ourselves, without

543

:

the overwhelm by putting constraints

on it, like, and I know Vive,

544

:

you were doing what's it called?

545

:

The PPP?

546

:

Vive: "Project 333".

547

:

And it's really bad, I should have

pulled the book out, found the author.

548

:

Oh, I here, I've got it.

549

:

Courtney Carver wrote a book

called "Project I think.

550

:

And she also wrote another one

called "Soulful Simplicity".

551

:

And it was about cutting your

wardrobe down to 33 items.

552

:

Hazel: Mmm, I'm about that.

553

:

Next year, that's my new challenge, baby.

554

:

Charlie: Oh my gosh.

555

:

Vive: It's amazing.

556

:

I'm not kidding.

557

:

I said to Hazel, when we were working

together, I was like, I feel so good.

558

:

Like relaxed because decision making

is a thing like I have to reduce

559

:

the barriers of decision making.

560

:

So having just this limited, it

just felt every day felt really easy

561

:

Charlie: love that.

562

:

Vive: and that?

563

:

Yeah, it was, it's really amazing.

564

:

Hazel: So, I have been doing my wardrobe

freeze right for 250 days or almost.

565

:

And I need to say that in that

time I've had zero body issues.

566

:

Like I've been so happy with my body

and my body has fluctuated, like

567

:

I've lost weight, I've put on weight,

but I haven't noticed because I'm so

568

:

content with the clothing that I have.

569

:

And then...

570

:

on Friday.

571

:

So I've been working

with this amazing woman.

572

:

She was actually interviewed by Chrissy.

573

:

I think she was like the second episode

of Reloved Radio, Bethany Alice.

574

:

And she does this she does like

creations, not alterations.

575

:

And so I sent her five of my

pieces to be altered in and

576

:

like made into these new things.

577

:

And they came back and I was so excited.

578

:

And honestly, the work is incredible.

579

:

Like the stuff she's made is awesome.

580

:

But two of the things didn't fit.

581

:

And I was like, Like what, excuse me.

582

:

And like, it was the first time I've had

that feeling of like body unworthiness

583

:

in 250 days, because, you know, normally

you're going to the op shop, you're

584

:

going to the vintage, you're going to

consignment, you're going to the retail

585

:

shops, you're trying stuff on you know,

every other weekend, however often it is.

586

:

And without doing that I've just

been wearing clothes that fit for

587

:

almost a year and it's been such an

incredible experience and because this

588

:

beautiful denim skirt just needs a

little bit more alteration, a little

589

:

bit like more give in the waist, I

was put in a tailspin and I was like,

590

:

"Oh my God, like I hate my body".

591

:

You know, all of those old stories that

we tell ourselves about our body came back

592

:

to me and I was like, this is the power of

not buying stuff, like just having a bit

593

:

of a wardrobe freeze, wherever that is.

594

:

If it's like seven days, if it's two

months, however long is that just wearing

595

:

clothes that fit you, make you forget that

there's all of that stuff from the fashion

596

:

industry be like, "You got to wear this."

597

:

Like, no, it doesn't look good on my body.

598

:

"You got to wear that",

doesn't actually fit me.

599

:

And it was just, yeah, really

interesting to see where my mind went

600

:

as soon as something didn't fit me.

601

:

Charlie: That is so powerful.

602

:

So, so powerful.

603

:

Vive: Yeah, choosing the clothes,

choosing the clothes that

604

:

make you feel like sensorily.

605

:

That's what I've noticed is

a really big thing for me.

606

:

And I noticed it also because it's been

reflected to me with my kids, there

607

:

are stuff that they just materials

that they're like that they could love.

608

:

Chryssius: My kids wouldn't wear

jeans for so long just because

609

:

denim did not feel nice for them.

610

:

Hazel: Yes,

611

:

Charlie: like the feeling

of my toes being spread.

612

:

Oh my gosh, I'm talking about my toes.

613

:

Oh my god.

614

:

Okay, I need to stop.

615

:

Put me in the bin.

616

:

I will escort myself

out, it's a safe place.

617

:

I never wore thongs as a child

because I didn't like the feeling of

618

:

the bit that goes between your toes.

619

:

I was like, ugh...

620

:

and it's funny now, I

actually don't own any thongs.

621

:

And even my heels that are like

strappy, nup, there's nothing there.

622

:

And I it's so interesting.

623

:

You said the sensory part because that

sensory feeling, no, I can't do it.

624

:

I don't think I'll.

625

:

Yep it's a sensory no to me.

626

:

If it's a sensory no, it's a no go.

627

:

Vive: And so there's a big

thing in um, in a particular

628

:

philosophy called aware parenting.

629

:

And it's a woman who she also has her

own kind of thing, the Marion Method,

630

:

but she talks a lot about willingness.

631

:

And when kids are forced to do things

against their will, where there's this

632

:

sense of coercion, which let's face

it, like we live systemically in a

633

:

culture that is a lot about coercion,

a lot about pushing and striving.

634

:

And when kids and people are forced to

do things where they're not willing,

635

:

then suddenly and slowly the will

gets pushed down and pushed down.

636

:

So we're more likely to do things that

we're not willing to do because we're

637

:

not connected to that innate body wisdom.

638

:

And so then it's no wonder

we start kind of like...

639

:

we reach midlife.

640

:

I'm 43.

641

:

We, we reach midlife and we're like,

I'm only going to wear tracksuit pants

642

:

because, you know, it's this sort of

sense of suddenly I'm just like, I am

643

:

only wearing shit that feels really good.

644

:

And like you said, Hazel, when I'm

wearing stuff that feels really good, it.

645

:

It has like a, it has something

and an impact on the life force and

646

:

the energy of how I am in the world

and how I relate with the world.

647

:

Charlie: Absolutely, I was just, a

week and a bit ago, I was just on a

648

:

retreat with eight women and we were

doing some energy work and things, and

649

:

we were doing shadow workshops, which

if you have any background in like

650

:

energy work and things is the really

gritty, not like dark stuff, pretty

651

:

much in the short form, the dark stuff.

652

:

And when you go to that place.

653

:

And every day, everyone

would just dress themselves.

654

:

And it was so interesting to see the

difference between the clothes that

655

:

people wore to arrive, what they

wore during the shadow workshops.

656

:

What they wore when we just had dinner and

after we did all that and the difference

657

:

in the fabrics, the difference in the

colours, the difference in what was

658

:

important and there were certain days

I remember where one day I woke up and

659

:

I went, I just need to wear trackies...

660

:

and a long sleeved shirt, and I think I'm

actually wearing the same top right now.

661

:

And it's like so comfortable, and that

sensory experience of just being really

662

:

comfortable with myself to then be able

to be vulnerable and show up as myself

663

:

was so ultimately important in that moment

664

:

Vive: And imagine if everyone had this

sense of awareness, and I think someone

665

:

said the ritual or the, there was another

word that came up, but ceremony, if there

666

:

was a, and it didn't have to be a big ding

dang dong of a thing, but if there was a

667

:

sense of awareness and ceremony, when we

were getting dressed for the day around

668

:

how we were feeling kind of a check in.

669

:

What am I needing?

670

:

Am I needing to feel kind of gentle?

671

:

Am I needing to feel really

bold and express today?

672

:

And there was that level of awareness

and intention that went into how

673

:

we were addressing ourselves, how

we might feel as we moved around

674

:

that day as a consequence of that

675

:

Charlie: I always, I can't meditate.

676

:

I have a very rough time

sitting and meditating.

677

:

I don't know about you guys.

678

:

If you have the same, or you have the

capability with children, maybe to be

679

:

able to do that saying someone with no

680

:

Hazel: that's the Ignore the children

681

:

Charlie: my.

682

:

Hazel: go inside.

683

:

Charlie: I'm on my soapbox

of not having children or not

684

:

having that responsibility yet.

685

:

And I, yeah I used to joke that my

ceremony of the day was, or my ritual was

686

:

sitting down and having a cup of coffee.

687

:

And for that time, my phone's

not involved or something.

688

:

I'm just really enjoying

this cup of coffee.

689

:

And now what I do is when I get dressed

in the morning, I pick out like two

690

:

options, maybe three, if I'm feeling.

691

:

A little bit more adventurous.

692

:

And I pick out the earrings that I'm

going to put with it and the shoes.

693

:

And I don't leave that space of

my wardrobe or the house until

694

:

I'm content with how I am.

695

:

And my biggest belief is that

the way that we dress ourselves is

696

:

actually a big form of self care and

that way that we treat ourselves and

697

:

giving, I know it's not as accessible

to everyone to have that space.

698

:

I'm saying this as someone who can

walk into my wardrobe half an hour if

699

:

I do choose without having to worry

about other humans or any, you know,

700

:

crazy, huge responsibilities like that.

701

:

But having that time that I set

aside every single day, just for me.

702

:

No one else, like it's purely for me

with the intention and the motivation

703

:

that I just need this for me that

is my form of meditation or yoga.

704

:

That's what that is for me.

705

:

And I feel like when people can pull that

for themselves, even if it's five minutes.

706

:

Hazel: Yeah.

707

:

The

708

:

Charlie: it's something

that you're it's purposeful.

709

:

It's you enjoy it.

710

:

You get, you look forward to it.

711

:

I sometimes go to bed and I've

already got the clothes I'm going

712

:

to wear the next day hung up.

713

:

And I'm excited, after I've had a

shower and going, Oh, what earrings

714

:

am I going to put on with this?

715

:

Or am I going to do my head up or down?

716

:

Yeah.

717

:

Am I feeling more bold today?

718

:

Or do I just want to be comfortable?

719

:

What is, where does that come from?

720

:

And where am I going to get it from?

721

:

Like, how am I giving that to myself?

722

:

And I try to be uninterrupted during that

time, but yeah, the intentionality of it,

723

:

you just, when you give that to yourself.

724

:

You even then if I find when I'm

doing that, I either find more things

725

:

in my wardrobe, or as I'm putting on

a top, I'll go, Oh, the next time I

726

:

wear this, I'm going to wear it with

this skirt because I like this for

727

:

the purpose of today because I need

pants on, I need pants to do my things.

728

:

But next time when I don't need to do

the things, I'm going to wear a really

729

:

big flowy skirt that I've got hanging up

because as I'm holding this top to it, I'm

730

:

seeing how the colour theory matching it.

731

:

I'm going, yes!

732

:

And I'm excited.

733

:

Going, "Oh my gosh, I can't

wait to wear this again!"

734

:

Like how much fun is that going?

735

:

Like, Oh, the next time I wear it, or I

don't know if any of you have that, but

736

:

when you wear something in summer and then

you realise, Oh, if I put a long sleeve

737

:

under it, it's winter now, I can "winter"

this, I can winter the summer dress.

738

:

I can winter this like it's and

I get so excited when I can start

739

:

wintering summer dresses because I'm

a dress girl through and through.

740

:

And I love when I can put my long

sleeve top on underneath my like

741

:

bright green little summer dress.

742

:

I go, yes, this is wicked.

743

:

I have the summer energy

in winter and it's great.

744

:

And I find that when I'm doing that

ceremonial practice getting dressed.

745

:

Vive: Yeah.

746

:

And I think that, what I hear from

both you and Hazel is, you know,

747

:

there's this, and I discovered it kind

of actually through art and through

748

:

drawing, but whenever anyone is

being creative, it's understanding

749

:

that creative energy is regenerative.

750

:

It's sort of like it's a way

that you can shift your own

751

:

energy through the creativity

and through the creative process.

752

:

So there's such empowerment

and I don't tend to use that

753

:

word because it, you know...

754

:

Charlie: Feels like a dirty word.

755

:

Vive: ...thing, but there's a lot of

power and life force and energy that

756

:

is created through creating and through

being creative that we outsource kind

757

:

of getting energy from other places, but

actually that is how you are generating

758

:

Hazel: Yeah, absolutely.

759

:

And it's like, you can do that, Charlie,

because you know, you can do that.

760

:

I can do that.

761

:

Veev can do that.

762

:

I'm sure Jacinta can do that too.

763

:

It's like, we can do that because we've

spent the time finding the pieces and

764

:

the things that we love and we have

a relationship with those clothes.

765

:

Cause I feel exactly the same as you.

766

:

I get so excited about wearing things,

but it's because I have an ongoing

767

:

relationship that gets deeper and

deeper with the items in my wardrobe.

768

:

Every time I wear them, it's like

they hold the memories of the

769

:

things that we've done in them.

770

:

Like I've got this skirt that I wore

during both my pregnancies with both

771

:

kids, like, you know, things that you

imbue these individual and kind of

772

:

like, meaning into the items in your

wardrobe and then you can love them more.

773

:

You can wear them more.

774

:

You can keep them for longer and

they really mean something to you.

775

:

They have an imbued meaning, which I

think is like the number one thing that

776

:

we need to think about when we're trying

to potentially curb our consumerism

777

:

is like having ownership, having

love for the things in our wardrobe.

778

:

Charlie: So, Vive and Hazel, other

than my little saying I've just

779

:

come up with the last 10 seconds, we

need to start dating our wardrobe.

780

:

How we like, honestly, I think we

need to treat our wardrobe like

781

:

we're going on a date with it.

782

:

Like, yeah that's in my opinion.

783

:

Start like, like date it.

784

:

Vive: I don't know if you guys, anyone

has read "Big Magic", but Elizabeth

785

:

Gilbert in that book, which is all about

creativity and a creative practice.

786

:

And she's a writer.

787

:

She talks about dressing up to write like

she's going on a date or having a date.

788

:

A wild love affair with

789

:

Charlie: Oh,

790

:

Vive: that she's writing and it, yeah, the

image of it it just, it really obviously

791

:

stuck in my brain, but I love that.

792

:

I love the playfulness that comes in

and I think that's another important

793

:

aspect of this whole picture, which is

we forget to play as we become adults.

794

:

Hazel: And we don't give ourself the

time to, because in case we get it

795

:

wrong, it's like time is so important.

796

:

If we get it wrong, then we've wasted

the time, but it's never a waste.

797

:

It's always gonna be important.

798

:

And, you know, energising, like you

said, it's such a huge e energetic piece

799

:

for me, and I'm sure everyone else.

800

:

Vive: And making it safe to experiment,

because I think what can happen is, and

801

:

particularly when you become a mum, a

bit like you were saying, Hazel is, you

802

:

feel that you fall into this new persona

in any stage of life, you might decide,

803

:

oh, this is my new persona, but, and

that kind of closes the, it puts the

804

:

blinkers on to what's possible as soon

as you are one, or a particular type of

805

:

person, and you really need to, it's about

kind of making it safe to experiment,

806

:

giving yourself permission to experiment.

807

:

Charlie: Oh, that one's good.

808

:

Chryssius: So Jacinta, from a

financial perspective how do you think

809

:

that the prevalence of fast fashion

is contributing to, first of all,

810

:

financial strain, but second of all debt

amongst consumers, particularly women.

811

:

Jacinta: So it's quite layered and

I don't want to shame anyone because

812

:

obviously fast fashion for some

is an accessibility you know, for

813

:

providing for yourself or your family.

814

:

So I think I like to go to the

structures that we all have to exist

815

:

under, which is all relevant to what

we've all been talking about, but we

816

:

live under like a patriarchal society

and capitalism is fueled by that.

817

:

So the reason women or a

large part of how women are

818

:

conditioned is to hate ourselves.

819

:

And if you buy things, you'll feel better.

820

:

And that the whole, the system is

designed that you use your disposable

821

:

income to like burn through.

822

:

And I have a theory.

823

:

I just call it the princess theory.

824

:

Like I think we're conditioned

from very young, obviously it's a

825

:

heteronormative thing, but but we'll

meet someone and he'll look after

826

:

us and he'll have the money and

like our money's designed for fun.

827

:

Like, there was obviously a point

when our rights were fought for, to be

828

:

able to have like our name on credit

cards and on houses, but I don't

829

:

think it was finished in terms of the

mentality of like, how are you gonna

830

:

look after yourself as an individual?

831

:

It was always tethered to your

relationship with a man, and I think

832

:

that's just a huge part to, to think

about, so in terms of fast fashion.

833

:

I think it just feeds the beast

and it's multiplied because

834

:

it's a way to make money.

835

:

That's the system we live under and

the easiest way is, like, I know we're

836

:

women talking about this, but yeah,

no one's talking about men shopping.

837

:

Like, there's a reason it was designed

for us to spend and just constantly

838

:

seek feeling better because that's

the conditioning of capitalism.

839

:

Like "if you buy this,

you're going to feel better".

840

:

Like everything you've spoken about.

841

:

I know that KOOKAÏ top you're

talking about, there were different

842

:

group of girls that wore it, but

I know it like we've all had like

843

:

this similar experience coming up.

844

:

I think about the times when there

were like knockoff brands and it was

845

:

like a lot more embarrassing to have

those like adidas was what three

846

:

stripes and then like a knockoff brand

was two stripes, maybe you'd get at a

847

:

big W or something and you were like

mortified as a kid, wearing that.

848

:

And I'm one of four.

849

:

So like my parents went out buying

like brand name clothing for us.

850

:

But like I knew when my friends had

a Billabong skirt or a Rusty skirt,

851

:

like you're sort of divided in status

of like how much money you have.

852

:

And like, I've worked from a very, yeah.

853

:

And I've worked from a very young age.

854

:

Like I was 13 and nine months.

855

:

And my dad's like, "Get a job.

856

:

You still have to do your chores,

but you're not getting pocket money."

857

:

So I've paid for my own stuff.

858

:

I pay for my own phone since I was

14, like I've been provided like

859

:

food, shelter and stuff, but I've been

very self sufficient for a long time.

860

:

So I just look around and see, yeah, the

conditioning and yeah, it's to seek, like

861

:

what you're going to get from it, like

the dopamine and things that are like

862

:

really terrifying now is like "buy now

pay later" and like reverse credit card.

863

:

Yeah.

864

:

And that's like a, that's a very

high that's like one of the, I

865

:

think that's one of the largest

debts we have in Australia now.

866

:

And it's because we're not taught, all

of us, regardless of gender, we're not

867

:

taught like about money and like how

to use it and like passing down that

868

:

information is wealth in itself, like if

you've come up in a family that talks to

869

:

you about investing and what your super

does and how to have an emergency fund

870

:

and splitting up your paycheck, like that

is valuable information and like, we're

871

:

not taught that, and then you just sink

further into um, It's always like how

872

:

other people think, like, who is it for?

873

:

Like, I found myself doing this yesterday.

874

:

I was going to a first birthday

and I have nothing to wear.

875

:

And so I was like looking

up stuff the night before.

876

:

And I was like, just looking,

I knew it was going to happen.

877

:

I'll look.

878

:

And then I.

879

:

Like I was like, Oh, I could go get that.

880

:

And then I was like,

Oh, go to your wardrobe.

881

:

And my stress is like finding shoes.

882

:

Cause I don't personally,

like, I'm not a big shopper.

883

:

I don't really, clothes aren't my thing,

but I understand expressing yourself,

884

:

but I found it more frustrating in

the past few years, like being 35.

885

:

I just felt there's no clothes for

my age group from like 30 to 50.

886

:

I just feel like we're

really sort of left out.

887

:

And yeah, I just, I went and tried

to get my dopamine fix and then I was

888

:

like, I'll just wear something I have.

889

:

And I found something and I put it

with some shoes and I was like, Oh,

890

:

it doesn't look as bad as I thought.

891

:

But I really try like

a minimalist approach.

892

:

Like I have one pair of

heels, one pair of sneakers.

893

:

One pair of flats and then yeah,

I don't have a lot to play with

894

:

because it's like not a priority, but

that's from a financial perspective.

895

:

It's like, what are my values?

896

:

My value is time.

897

:

So I don't, that's not where I play.

898

:

I go like for experiences and I actually

was thinking about this the other day,

899

:

like in travel I gave a lot of my stuff

away because I took like one suitcase

900

:

to the US when I moved there in 2018.

901

:

I gave away everything I had.

902

:

Cookbooks, clothes, my favourite cowboy

boots that I wore with everything,

903

:

like I gave everything away because

it's like, Yeah I have nostalgia for

904

:

stuff and they're like cool things I

owned, but I dunno, it's cyclical to me.

905

:

I was like, it was for a time and

then like, that's my journey with

906

:

it and it's over, but yeah, fast

fashion is a hard thing to navigate.

907

:

Cause I think about people who need

the access to, and now it's like, not

908

:

as embarrassing to buy stuff at Kmart.

909

:

It's like where everyone goes, like it's

a total shift to when I was younger.

910

:

But I think about people who need

access to things that are cheaper,

911

:

but yeah, it's a vicious cycle.

912

:

And I think people need to remember,

like, I don't want anyone to

913

:

feel bad cause like you're, we're

under a system working perfectly.

914

:

Like, we are We are the pawns.

915

:

Yeah.

916

:

So,

917

:

Hazel: And sadly with a product now,

like we have become the product,

918

:

they're mining, you know, everything

that we do online in order to

919

:

advertise more effectively to us and

what sold is our data so that people

920

:

can aim things specifically at us,

"Buy this now"., like, it's just...

921

:

Jacinta: Yeah.

922

:

I saw a post today.

923

:

I didn't get to read the article, but

I went to read like the blurb and the

924

:

comments, but a woman was pregnant and

she said, I was trying to have my pregnant

925

:

silent, pregnancy silent so that she

wanted to see if the algorithm, like if

926

:

you didn't talk about being pregnant, or

having a baby, like, could the algorithm

927

:

pick up, you were gonna be a new parent?

928

:

Because, that in itself is, you lay

out a lot of money for all the supplies

929

:

that you need to have your first kid.

930

:

Hazel: you never then use

931

:

Jacinta: And, and I

thought that was haunting.

932

:

It's like, I was like,

yeah, it's haunting.

933

:

Like, they're not even here

yet, and you've got the

934

:

markers on them of that baby.

935

:

Like, they could follow that kid

forever, like they know that you're

936

:

the parent, they have your data, like

if we all knew how much, the tabs that

937

:

they kept on us, it would be haunting.

938

:

I remember someone telling

me that seven years ago.

939

:

Vive: And Jacinta, such a good point

that you make about just, I was thinking

940

:

back to when I had my first baby and

the amount of stuff that we bought and

941

:

the amount of stuff that we didn't use.

942

:

But how the thing behind all of

that, especially as a new parent,

943

:

and I know it's not fashion, but

just generally consuming and buying

944

:

stuff in general, it's this fear of

like not knowing what you're doing.

945

:

With the parenting thing where you

feel like you have it all to support

946

:

you So there's it like you said like

going way back I think you said it's

947

:

something about the fairytale...

948

:

Jacinta: Yeah, yeah,

yeah, princess theory.

949

:

Vive: the Disney Princess the Disney

princess theme, of like you're the

950

:

prize to be won at the end of it

not actually It's the story is not

951

:

about you, it's about the hero.

952

:

And you're just the prize that they

win at the end and the happily ever

953

:

after, like whether we like it or

not, and hopefully less so with the

954

:

Disney movies that are being produced

nowadays, but certainly for my era.

955

:

It was all about being saved by the

man and the man providing even though

956

:

feminism was around, it's like how

ingrained that gets in the mind of

957

:

a four or five year old about, you

know, your financial sovereignty or

958

:

agency, it takes a long time to come

back around to being like, Oh no, I

959

:

actually can figure this out and be the

heRoine of my own story in a financial

960

:

Charlie: Isn't it marketing 101 to

sell people that they have a problem

961

:

and that you have the solution?

962

:

Jacinta: Yeah, like, like

"this will make you feel..."

963

:

Hazel: It's the "worth" piece.

964

:

Jacinta: It's selling you an idea.

965

:

Charlie: You need this rocker for

your baby because it will do this

966

:

because otherwise this will happen.

967

:

And it's like, wait what?

968

:

Vive: It's trading in people's

fear and that's the kind of

969

:

Hazel: But that's exactly what

the fashion industry does as well.

970

:

It trades in people's fear.

971

:

"You are not worthy.

972

:

You are not good enough.

973

:

How can you be good enough?

974

:

Buy this."

975

:

Like that's, you know, that

is Fashion Marketing 101.

976

:

Charlie: Oh yeah.

977

:

Even, gosh, the amount of times I

see things that are like, "this top

978

:

will make your boobs look bigger."

979

:

It's like what's wrong with my boobs?

980

:

Like it, you know does it with

our body especially or this will

981

:

snatch your waist and it's like

why do I need to be snatched?

982

:

Why do I need to be uncomfortable?

983

:

Vive: The ultimate onee

is, "you're worth it!"

984

:

I feel like that catchphrase in marketing,

I'm like, wow, do I need someone

985

:

outside me to tell me that I'm worth it?

986

:

Jacinta: Yeah.

987

:

Like "treat yourself".

988

:

Vive: Yeah.

989

:

That's the ultimate one financially

of like, you're worth it.

990

:

You deserve this.

991

:

Charlie: Deserve what?

992

:

Another thing?

993

:

Jacinta: It's a reward.

994

:

It's all reward system.

995

:

Yeah.

996

:

Chryssius: So just on that topic,

I wanted to ask what some of the

997

:

practical steps might be that we

can take if we wanted to pause and

998

:

reflect on our consumption habits?

999

:

Especially around fast fashion.

:

00:57:56,328 --> 00:58:00,238

Charlie: So the one that I

do, so I don't online shop.

:

00:58:00,482 --> 00:58:02,978

So I have an issue with online shopping.

:

00:58:02,988 --> 00:58:03,328

Just.

:

00:58:03,573 --> 00:58:07,413

I prefer to go and get something

and feel it in my hand.

:

00:58:07,443 --> 00:58:09,023

Maybe it's just the sensory experience.

:

00:58:09,023 --> 00:58:12,953

I'm sure Vive or Jacinta, you could

probably put that something else,

:

00:58:12,953 --> 00:58:14,373

but that's not for this podcast.

:

00:58:14,897 --> 00:58:16,007

That's not for this podcast.

:

00:58:16,077 --> 00:58:20,907

That's for a clinical room,

but one thing that I do is I.

:

00:58:21,302 --> 00:58:22,222

I love Pinterest.

:

00:58:22,752 --> 00:58:25,442

I really do love social media.

:

00:58:25,442 --> 00:58:27,672

I know there's dark sides to it,

but I do think there's some really

:

00:58:27,672 --> 00:58:29,202

great creative aspects of it.

:

00:58:29,582 --> 00:58:34,429

And I actually have a Pinterest page I

make a new one every few months and I go

:

00:58:34,429 --> 00:58:37,969

through my wardrobe and I look at every,

I try and memorise as much as I can.

:

00:58:37,979 --> 00:58:43,749

And I make a Pinterest board of basically

like clothes that are already in my

:

00:58:43,749 --> 00:58:45,749

wardrobe, if that makes sense, or colours.

:

00:58:45,769 --> 00:58:46,639

or styles.

:

00:58:47,909 --> 00:58:52,059

I go to it like I, because sometimes

like, look, I'm very creative person,

:

00:58:52,069 --> 00:58:58,269

but sometimes like I will go to that

little Pinterest page and there's like

:

00:58:58,529 --> 00:59:04,629

a dress with big puffy shoulders and I

might have seven different looks saved

:

00:59:04,669 --> 00:59:06,249

of dresses with big puffy shoulders.

:

00:59:06,289 --> 00:59:08,509

And I'd look, okay what

kind of scene is that in?

:

00:59:08,519 --> 00:59:12,199

It almost gives you like, it's like a

guideline that I've made for myself.

:

00:59:12,409 --> 00:59:16,359

Of my own wardrobe, just

redone in creative ways.

:

00:59:16,389 --> 00:59:19,109

And because there's an algorithm on

Pinterest, we search one thing, you

:

00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:20,399

know, more things like that come up.

:

00:59:21,179 --> 00:59:24,919

If I give myself maybe a little bit of

time, maybe each few months to really

:

00:59:24,919 --> 00:59:30,149

look at that, I get all these ideas that

aren't of things that I want to get.

:

00:59:30,179 --> 00:59:31,649

It's things I already have.

:

00:59:32,169 --> 00:59:38,629

I do have a little small pinterest board

of the dream the dream items I'd love to

:

00:59:38,629 --> 00:59:42,779

find in an op shop that I love the way

that they're made or the things on them

:

00:59:42,779 --> 00:59:44,319

that I'm like, yes, this is so cool.

:

00:59:44,359 --> 00:59:44,979

I'm obsessed.

:

00:59:44,999 --> 00:59:46,259

This is creatively amazing.

:

00:59:47,429 --> 00:59:52,534

Having that little page of

already curated outfits.

:

00:59:52,534 --> 00:59:54,944

I mean, basically like a look book,

but it's just not me in the photos.

:

00:59:55,644 --> 00:59:59,744

I can already really like when

I, you know, think I've got an

:

00:59:59,744 --> 01:00:01,254

event, I want to change up a look.

:

01:00:01,284 --> 01:00:06,054

I've already got that as a guideline

for myself and it's already made of

:

01:00:06,054 --> 01:00:07,444

things that are already in my wardrobe.

:

01:00:07,844 --> 01:00:11,334

So the creative aspect, that

burden is taken off my shoulders.

:

01:00:11,394 --> 01:00:12,594

I'm not bothered by it.

:

01:00:12,674 --> 01:00:17,579

And then like it's really one step

into the space of trying and being

:

01:00:17,579 --> 01:00:19,759

creative and having a bit of fun.

:

01:00:19,769 --> 01:00:23,129

It's really one step in that direction

because nine out of ten times I

:

01:00:23,129 --> 01:00:26,569

don't end up going with the same

look that I found on Pinterest.

:

01:00:27,029 --> 01:00:30,239

I end up with a mismatch of

something else because it was one,

:

01:00:30,269 --> 01:00:34,519

it was that little push to go get

in there and try some stuff on.

:

01:00:34,769 --> 01:00:35,449

Just give it a go.

:

01:00:36,182 --> 01:00:37,402

Vive: It's like having a menu.

:

01:00:37,522 --> 01:00:40,892

It's like the body loves

some kind of a roadmap.

:

01:00:41,102 --> 01:00:43,622

It's something, there's something

really reassuring about it.

:

01:00:43,702 --> 01:00:49,862

So to have the a la carte menu there with

prompting already prompting the ideas,

:

01:00:50,737 --> 01:00:52,657

it's like, oh, that's, just way easier.

:

01:00:53,115 --> 01:00:55,735

Hazel: And it's such a good

way of shopping your wardrobe.

:

01:00:56,211 --> 01:00:57,081

Chryssius: It definitely is.

:

01:00:57,544 --> 01:01:02,024

Hazel: Like, cause people, people don't

know how necessarily to go about that

:

01:01:02,024 --> 01:01:05,597

from a practical standpoint, but like

you said, just having that inspiration.

:

01:01:05,807 --> 01:01:11,427

And even if it's just a point to jump

off of, it's still an ability to visually

:

01:01:11,427 --> 01:01:16,727

see how you can use what you already have

in a new way, in a way that you've not

:

01:01:16,737 --> 01:01:22,997

done before, which kind of like feeds

into to, um, to feed that like pursuit

:

01:01:22,997 --> 01:01:24,934

for the new that we're constantly having.

:

01:01:24,944 --> 01:01:28,034

That is kind of like, you know, that's

why we go to buy, is because we're

:

01:01:28,034 --> 01:01:32,234

looking for new, new, new, but those

new outfit combinations through the

:

01:01:32,254 --> 01:01:35,794

inspiration that you've gathered

is such a great way of doing it.

:

01:01:36,108 --> 01:01:39,378

Chryssius: It's like having a fashion

magazine where you're looking at all

:

01:01:39,378 --> 01:01:43,278

these different options and you're getting

really inspired, but the catch is it's

:

01:01:43,308 --> 01:01:47,458

not inspiring you to then go out and

buy something new, it's inspiring you

:

01:01:47,458 --> 01:01:52,138

to go to your wardrobe and pick out that

thing that you already have and wear it

:

01:01:52,518 --> 01:01:54,168

either a different way or wear it again.

:

01:01:54,469 --> 01:01:57,939

Charlie: That's my practical tip

of if you want to start somewhere

:

01:01:58,359 --> 01:02:01,249

where it feels like it's really

done a little bit for you.

:

01:02:01,249 --> 01:02:03,729

Just start there.

:

01:02:04,176 --> 01:02:08,863

Vive: Mine's super, super simple and it's

based on a practice and you could use

:

01:02:08,913 --> 01:02:12,043

this for anything really, but I think

it's a great one to use whenever you

:

01:02:12,043 --> 01:02:16,583

have that kind of impulse to to, I think

Jacinta was talking about reaching for

:

01:02:16,583 --> 01:02:21,393

the dopamine hit which is, it's from the

Centre of Nonviolent Communication and

:

01:02:21,393 --> 01:02:27,753

it's about what's the feeling, what am I

needing, and what are the other strategies

:

01:02:27,903 --> 01:02:30,043

to get that feeling, get that need met.

:

01:02:30,863 --> 01:02:35,493

So often it's just identifying like, what

am I feeling around needing something new?

:

01:02:35,953 --> 01:02:40,243

So it's noticing and pausing,

asking yourself those questions.

:

01:02:40,403 --> 01:02:41,393

What are my feelings?

:

01:02:41,813 --> 01:02:42,933

What am I needing?

:

01:02:43,643 --> 01:02:47,333

And there's a beautiful worksheet

actually on their website where

:

01:02:47,333 --> 01:02:49,223

it lists like universal needs.

:

01:02:49,963 --> 01:02:53,063

And it gives a real nuanced

approach to starting to get in

:

01:02:53,063 --> 01:02:54,743

touch with what it is that you need.

:

01:02:55,273 --> 01:02:59,213

And then, you know, what are the other

strategies that I could get this this need

:

01:02:59,213 --> 01:03:05,603

met to feel excited, to feel beautiful

or sexy or whatever it is that we're

:

01:03:05,603 --> 01:03:11,043

longing, however we're longing to feel,

or we're needing to feel in our bodies.

:

01:03:11,173 --> 01:03:14,058

What are the other strategies

that I could do to feel that way?

:

01:03:14,873 --> 01:03:19,893

Hazel: And I think that kind of feeds

into, you know, the way consumerism

:

01:03:19,893 --> 01:03:23,833

has basically been sold to us, to fill

in the place of all of those things.

:

01:03:23,853 --> 01:03:27,023

And it's like, what are the

real things that we care about?

:

01:03:27,033 --> 01:03:29,093

Is it spending time with your friends?

:

01:03:29,113 --> 01:03:30,993

Is it spending time with your loved ones?

:

01:03:31,012 --> 01:03:32,692

For me, it's a, it's my business.

:

01:03:32,722 --> 01:03:37,532

Like the thing that's really allowed me

to not consume this year and to really,

:

01:03:37,602 --> 01:03:43,497

actually stick to my wardrobe freeze is,

because I love what I do in my business.

:

01:03:43,527 --> 01:03:47,197

And it's so important to me to get the

message out to women that you can wear

:

01:03:47,197 --> 01:03:51,357

what you love, wear what you already have,

and those two things are not different

:

01:03:51,377 --> 01:03:57,857

and they can, be synonymous and to start

to decouple our sense of personal style

:

01:03:57,857 --> 01:04:02,127

with consumerism is like, I've put all

of my energy that I would have probably

:

01:04:02,127 --> 01:04:07,438

put into op shopping, um, say a year

ago into, you know, really refining that

:

01:04:07,438 --> 01:04:10,202

message and helping people to do the same.

:

01:04:10,202 --> 01:04:13,892

It's, and it's like, for me, that

fills that part for me, it fills

:

01:04:13,912 --> 01:04:15,232

what op shopping was giving me.

:

01:04:15,232 --> 01:04:16,092

And for me...

:

01:04:16,622 --> 01:04:19,292

I guess it's really just leaning

into what I really want to wear.

:

01:04:19,352 --> 01:04:22,002

And I know that we've talked about

that before, but it's like you said

:

01:04:22,002 --> 01:04:25,732

Jacinta, what I really want to wear is

not what's in the shops necessarily.

:

01:04:25,732 --> 01:04:28,662

I want to wear something that

makes me feel authentic makes me

:

01:04:28,662 --> 01:04:32,017

feel , like I'm being presented in

the world in a way that, um, I feel

:

01:04:32,017 --> 01:04:36,767

inside and that comes from, you

know, maybe upcycling my clothes.

:

01:04:36,787 --> 01:04:40,437

Like I've done lots of dying

of them and I'm changing them.

:

01:04:40,437 --> 01:04:45,487

And that is another way like research

shows that in fashion psychology,

:

01:04:45,967 --> 01:04:50,217

if we have ownership of our clothes

in that way of upcycling or mending

:

01:04:50,217 --> 01:04:54,204

them, um, you know, that the visible

mending trend is huge at the moment.

:

01:04:54,594 --> 01:04:57,014

We actually engage with

them on a deeper level.

:

01:04:57,014 --> 01:05:01,200

We have more of a, long lasting

and loving relationship with

:

01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:05,529

our clothes because we have that

small part of ownership over them.

:

01:05:07,387 --> 01:05:12,497

Vive: And once again, Hazel, like

emphasising the agency in creativity

:

01:05:12,637 --> 01:05:17,047

that generates for you, because what

we're taught is that we're disempowered

:

01:05:17,047 --> 01:05:21,614

and we can't fix things or change

things or create new things, because we

:

01:05:21,614 --> 01:05:23,354

need to go out and buy the new thing.

:

01:05:23,934 --> 01:05:27,944

As opposed to, we actually can grow

the skills to dye our clothes, to

:

01:05:27,944 --> 01:05:31,784

fix them, you know, like you did

with your Birkies to totally change

:

01:05:31,784 --> 01:05:33,674

the colour of your Birkenstocks.

:

01:05:34,426 --> 01:05:37,356

Jacinta: And I have a friend who

sows because I have not taken up that

:

01:05:37,386 --> 01:05:39,226

hobby, but I've had things fixed.

:

01:05:39,226 --> 01:05:41,629

But also I was going to say,

it's conditioned to think we

:

01:05:41,629 --> 01:05:44,859

can buy the feeling and like

you can't buy the feeling.

:

01:05:44,859 --> 01:05:50,429

A skill is to sit with what's missing,

what's the void I'm trying to fill, like

:

01:05:50,429 --> 01:05:54,969

sitting and observing yourself, which

I know Vive has spoken about, but yeah

:

01:05:55,019 --> 01:05:57,769

That's the skill rather than thinking

I can buy this and I'll ultimately

:

01:05:57,769 --> 01:06:01,119

feel happier, sexier, whatever.

:

01:06:01,259 --> 01:06:05,349

And then it's like, oh, sitting with

like, I'm buying, I just think I can buy

:

01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:06,999

the feeling, but that's not possible.

:

01:06:07,029 --> 01:06:07,299

So...

:

01:06:07,716 --> 01:06:08,756

Vive: It's temporary.

:

01:06:09,016 --> 01:06:09,406

Jacinta: Yes.

:

01:06:09,926 --> 01:06:10,536

Temporary high.

:

01:06:10,536 --> 01:06:10,816

Yep.

:

01:06:11,383 --> 01:06:15,793

Hazel: And just also that point of

like being really mindful about that,

:

01:06:15,803 --> 01:06:17,813

but I'm not feeling guilty about it.

:

01:06:17,813 --> 01:06:21,576

It's like, again, research will show

that if we feel guilty guilty about

:

01:06:21,576 --> 01:06:24,686

something like over consumption,

it's more likely to actually lead

:

01:06:24,686 --> 01:06:26,083

to doing those actions again.

:

01:06:26,363 --> 01:06:31,296

And we, you know, the guilt is kind

of what keeps us trapped or keeps

:

01:06:31,296 --> 01:06:33,750

us stagnant in our consumption.

:

01:06:34,412 --> 01:06:35,812

Vive: And you talked about this.

:

01:06:35,845 --> 01:06:39,782

Chrissy and Hazel were talking

about the overwhelm of saving

:

01:06:39,782 --> 01:06:41,392

the world from fast fashion.

:

01:06:41,892 --> 01:06:44,762

And it made me immediately think,

you know, when we're overwhelmed,

:

01:06:44,828 --> 01:06:46,638

we very quickly go to hopelessness.

:

01:06:47,038 --> 01:06:48,208

Like, well, what's the point?

:

01:06:48,248 --> 01:06:51,278

I might as well just buy because I'm

never going to fix the world's problems

:

01:06:51,278 --> 01:06:54,612

with fast fashion and the amount of

fabric that's getting thrown into

:

01:06:54,612 --> 01:06:56,652

the ocean or wherever it is going.

:

01:06:57,162 --> 01:07:01,125

But it's always bringing it back to,

and I know this in the, in more of

:

01:07:01,125 --> 01:07:03,708

a, um, tending my own garden, which

:

01:07:03,806 --> 01:07:04,136

Hazel: a euphemism.

:

01:07:04,868 --> 01:07:06,148

Vive: metaphor for many things,

:

01:07:06,458 --> 01:07:07,158

but you know, like,

:

01:07:07,529 --> 01:07:09,329

Charlie: We've had a lot

of those kind of moments

:

01:07:09,329 --> 01:07:11,249

where we've gone, is that for the

:

01:07:11,249 --> 01:07:11,939

podcast?

:

01:07:11,939 --> 01:07:13,189

Or is that for a therapist?

:

01:07:13,279 --> 01:07:13,949

Not sure.

:

01:07:14,055 --> 01:07:17,925

Vive: but you know, coming back to

tending just your small part of life

:

01:07:18,585 --> 01:07:23,765

and what's within your sphere of control,

like always being able to come back

:

01:07:23,975 --> 01:07:27,115

and being like, well, what's within my

sphere of control is I could think about

:

01:07:27,635 --> 01:07:32,438

what I'm trying to feel by purchasing

this thing as the absolute first piece

:

01:07:32,968 --> 01:07:37,408

and with absolute compassion, because

like you were saying, Hazel, if there's

:

01:07:37,408 --> 01:07:43,498

no compassion, if it's suppressing

the urge to purchase, that suppression

:

01:07:43,508 --> 01:07:45,118

is going to come back and bite you.

:

01:07:45,368 --> 01:07:51,058

Like suppression and pushing away,

inevitably the pressure is just there.

:

01:07:51,068 --> 01:07:53,528

It's just being held at bay for a time.

:

01:07:54,078 --> 01:07:57,808

And then when you say, Hazel,

that people tend to just purchase

:

01:07:58,448 --> 01:08:02,458

anyway, it's because whatever we

suppress kind of comes back up at us.

:

01:08:04,824 --> 01:08:07,924

Chryssius: Thank you so much,

Vive, Jacinta, Charlie and Hazel

:

01:08:07,934 --> 01:08:09,424

for sharing your expertise.

:

01:08:09,454 --> 01:08:12,774

I'm absolutely loving how you're

inspiring us all to rethink our

:

01:08:12,784 --> 01:08:17,064

habits and our choices, particularly

around fashion consumption.

:

01:08:17,644 --> 01:08:20,874

For our listeners, be sure to join

us for the next two episodes in

:

01:08:20,874 --> 01:08:24,756

this series, because we're going to

continue to explore mindful fashion

:

01:08:24,756 --> 01:08:30,807

consumption, ethical shopping practices

and the power of conscious consumerism.

:

01:08:31,386 --> 01:08:32,287

Thanks for listening.

:

01:08:32,346 --> 01:08:33,437

We'll see you then.

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About the Podcast

Reloved Radio: Sustainable Fashion Stories
Be inspired by the individuals who are not only transforming wardrobes but also paving the way for a planet-friendly fashion revolution. Tune in every second Tuesday to discover how these incredible stories of secondhand style, sustainable fashion, upcycling, rewearing and reselling are reshaping the narrative of our closets... and, in turn, our world.

About your host

Profile picture for Chryssius Dunn

Chryssius Dunn

Wife. Mother. Op-shops. Re-wearing. Anti-fast fashion. Decaf coffee. Cat videos. Train surfing. Nude skydiving. What? Oh, I was just listing words.